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Old July 23rd, 2001, 05:20 PM   #1
Madam No Fear
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Any opinions of Mobile 1 vs Red Line Oil? *NM*

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Old July 23rd, 2001, 10:14 PM   #2
Bruce From Fremont
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Re: Any opinions of Mobile 1 vs Red Line Oil?

Moble 1 has been around a long time and has a lot of money behind them. I would want some good info on red line product. I have used some of ther product before with great results but I don't if I would trust my engine to them.

Bruce
aka dentless
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Old July 24th, 2001, 09:51 AM   #3
Catalog Guy
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Heard Red Line is best stuff on the planet

That your engine will run cooler with Red Line that Mobil 1. Red Line is a local company with a great reputation. However, I don't have any good facts, so I suggest that you post on the Racing Board.

Andrew
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Old July 24th, 2001, 11:39 AM   #4
Madam No Fear
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Found comments from the racing board...

Regarding Red Line Oil and Water Wetter:

Assuming your cooling system is functioning properly, you might correct your cooling problem by reducing your coolant concentration to 15% - 25% and adding waterwetter by Redline. A local Porsche race team (Speedvision GT) uses straight water (distilled of course) and Waterwetter. You probably want to add some antifreeze for a street car. The Redline propaganda almost has me convinced to drop my coolant concentration down to about 25%.
The reasoning behind this is that antifreeze is very good at lowering the freezing point of the coolant, but it is horrible at transferring heat. Water alone is almost 2x better at conducting heat than antifreeze.
You could also try replacing your oil with Redline. I saw a about a 10 degree drop in my average coolant temperature after switching to Redline 10w40. This is due to decreased friction and better heat conduction by the Redline oil.

AND

i did a straight repalcement of 12oz coolant with a single 12oz bottle of WaterWetter. Car runs an honest 5 degrees cooler. '98 2.5L boxster, no other engine mods. highway driving with A/C on. will try the track this weekend at Thunderhill POC TT, should be 100+ ambiant. previous Willow Springs events in up to 107 ambiant have approached 250 engine temp but not exceeded.

Thanks for the suggestion Andrew! (smile)" WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=1
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Old July 24th, 2001, 11:56 AM   #5
Magic Mtn Dan
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Those comments talk about 5 & 10 degree drops...

I wonder:

1. How the person knows it's 5 or 10 or whatever degrees. On the Boxster, the gauge doesn't offer that degree of detail so I can't see how we'd know if that was true or not. Seems to me that a alternate method of accurately checking the temperature would be necessary (secondary gauge?). I'm always curious to know how accurate the information is - was the testing done on the same day at the same ambient temperature with the same speeds/braking, etc?

2. What is the real value is of dropping temperature 5 or 10 degrees? Sure cooler is better but if the car is running at 180 degrees, 10 degrees is about 5% cooler. If it's running at 190 or 200 then the difference is even less. Is it worth it to drop 5 or 10 degrees?

Lots of questions (smile)" WIDTH=15 HEIGHT=1
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Old July 24th, 2001, 01:44 PM   #6
RJ
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as I recall, "air conditioner" channels display....

... temperature in Celcius. Ack, I forget - is it Channel 6?

So, assuming they are comparing before and after under the same situations, it would be possible to detect this with accuracy.

-RJ
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Old July 25th, 2001, 01:11 PM   #7
Vern
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Another opinion on synthetic oil & water temps...

Water temperture is typically controlled by the thermostat, radiator (and number of cooling rows), and air flow across the radiator. The easiest way to change water temperature is to change thermostats to a "cooler" one...one that opens at a lower temperature...say 180 degrees vs 190 degrees. Conversely, if you want a higher water temperature, use a different thermostat, or restrict air flow across the radiator...like using tape on the air intake...the engine will now run hotter.

Watch NASCAR (knowing this is taboo by some) and see crews adjust the engine temps by restricting the airflow across the radiator. The engine makes more horsepower when running at optimum operating temperture...usually about 190 degrees water temperature and 250 degree oil temperature. Notice the air intakes are usually taped during qualifying or when ambient temperatures are cool. Cars start running hotter in traffic (or draft) when airflow is restricted across the radiator. They either remove tape from the grill or back-off from running so close to the car in front.

Doubtful, you'll see any noticeable change in water temperture just by changing oil brands or using some miracle oil additive in a production car equipped with a thermostat.

Now, if you can measure the oil temperature...you'll have a better indication of how well the lubricant is working...although factors such as wet sump or dry sump oil supply and external oil coolers also affect oil temperature.

Synthentic oil flows better than mineral oil at cold ambient temperatures allowing for better lubrication at start-up. Synthetic oil is also less subsceptible to thermal break down at high ambient temperatures and operating conditions which provides better protection in extreme operating environments such as racing.

Unless independent side-by-side comparisons are made of various brand oils, most people rely on product advertising for their information. Believe what you want to believe, but oils made to a certain SAE service specification pretty much perform the same.

In my 36 years of automotive experience, I've not found a significant difference in brand name engine lubricants. More important is to keep oil and filters changed regularly. I personally switched from mineral oil to synthetic for its improved protection and service life. Mobil 1 is my choice for use in my 01S and four classic cars.

There's no doubt other synthetic oil brands of same service specification offer equal protection...it's basically a matter of buyer preference and the price they're willing to pay.

My .02 cents.
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Old July 25th, 2001, 03:24 PM   #8
Tool Pants
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Great info Vern, thanks *NM*

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Old July 25th, 2001, 05:00 PM   #9
Trygve Isaacson
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re covering radiator airflow

Vern writes, "Notice the air intakes are usually taped during qualifying or when ambient temperatures are cool."

I was under the impression that they taped over these openings during qualifying because it enhanced the aerodynamic drag profile a small amount, at the loss of cooling effect, where cooling is unimportant when you're only doing a couple of hot qualifying laps.
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Old July 25th, 2001, 06:34 PM   #10
Vern
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Re: aerodynamics vs. engine temp

Although the taped air intakes may improve aerodynamics ever so slightly, it's more important to get the "qualifying engine" up to proper operating temperature quickly...there's only one warm-up lap and two qualifying laps. The qualifying engine is designed to run "hot" and make more power...the race engine will be designed to last 500 miles or whatever the race length happens to be.

.....................

Here's a little Q&A response from NASCAR's Jimmy Fenning, crew chief for Mark Martin's #6 Ford:

Q: What exactly is the mechanical difference between a qualifying motor and a race motor?

A: The qualifying motor has huge parts in there, and if you get it hot you don't have to worry about it. Now a race motor, you don't want to get it too hot.

.................

Now let's try not to get them Boxster motors too hot...eh

Vern
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