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Old May 1st, 2002, 07:28 PM   #11
Norm H (Fremont, CA)
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Re: Brake bleed sequence?

After bleeding my brakes on Sunday I think anyone with several track days or a couple of years of fun driving should do it. We pumped out a significant amount of cloudy fluid with very small bubbles in it from the front brakes and some from the rear as well. The pedal is noticeably firmer now even in light braking.
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Old May 2nd, 2002, 07:07 AM   #12
Doug MacKenzie
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Re: Brake bleed sequence?

Don't you have to bleed the clutch master cylinder too? I assume you do that last - right?

Doug
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Old May 2nd, 2002, 07:16 AM   #13
Magic Mtn Dan
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Brake Bleeding per Motive Products (mfr of Power Bleeder)

http://www.motiveproducts.com/directions.htm
Direction for using the POWER BLEEDERTM:

WARNING: Hydraulic fluid is hazardous. Read and follow fluid manufacturer's warnings. Hydraulic fluid is corrosive and may damage automobile paint or other surfaces. If fluid spills, flush with water immediately. Always wear safety goggles when working with hydraulic fluid.

DIRECTIONS: Use your Power Bleeder only as directed. Read these directions completely before starting. The Power BleederTM is intended for use only by individuals experienced with bleeding and servicing hydraulic systems. If you are unsure about your ability or experience, consult a trained professional. Always follow vehicle manufacturers' directions when bleeding hydraulic systems.

1. Ensure that Power Bleeder is clean and free of debris, old hydraulic fluid, or any cleaners or solvents.

2. Remove hydraulic fluid reservoir cap from vehicle. If old fluid is excessively dirty, siphon it off and refill reservoir with fresh fluid. Do not pump excessively dirty fluid through hydraulic system.

*** Note from Dan: we use a turkey baster and take out as much of the fluid in the reservoir as we can (first remove the screen using a pliers) then refill with fresh, clean brake fluid. Don't use brake fluid from an open can - brake fluid is hydroscopic (takes on water). Only fresh brake fluid should be used (there's no value in saving unused brake fluid). ***

3. Firmly attach Power Bleeder cap to the fluid reservoir, ensuring that gasket seats properly and is not worn or cracked.

4. Tighten pump cap onto empty Power Bleeder and pressurize to 10 psi. Check for leaks at fluid reservoir and at Power Bleeder fluid hose connections. If reservoir cap or hose connections are leaking, release accumulated pressure in Power Bleeder by gently unscrewing the pump cap. Never remove reservoir cap before depressurizing Power Bleeder tank. Reattach Power Bleeder reservoir cap or tighten hose connections and once again pump tank to 10 psi and check for leaks.

5. If no leaks are found, unscrew pump cap and add up to 2 quarts of new hydraulic fluid from a sealed container. Use only the type of hydraulic fluid recommended for your vehicle.

6. Tighten pump cap. Pressurize Power Bleeder to level recommended in vehicle service manual. Do not exceed 20 psi. Higher pressures may damage your vehicle's hydraulic system and could result in serious injury.

7. Determine proper brake bleeding sequence from your vehicle service manual. Attach bleed tube to bleed valve at the first cylinder to be bled; place open end in a suitable fluid receptacle. Open bleed valve; bleed until fluid runs clear and free of bubbles. Tighten bleed valve to the torque specified in your service manual.

*** Note from Dan: we always start with the brake furthest from the Master Cylinder which in our case is the right rear. I've read other ideas on this so I can't say definitively but that's what we've done. ***

8. Repeat on each bleed valve. Pump additional pressure into Power Bleeder if necessary.

9. If fluid remains in the Power Bleeder tank when through: tip the tank away from fluid pick-up tube and open bleed valve closest to the master cylinder. Allow air to flow into fluid reservoir until fluid level falls just to the maximum fill level on your reservoir. Close the bleed valve and tighten to specified torque.

10. When complete, release pressure by slowly loosening pump cap. Remove the cap from fluid reservoir, taking care to avoid spilling any fluid that remains in the tube.

11. Replace fluid reservoir cap on your vehicle, checking that fluid level is at the maximum level indicated on reservoir.

12. Before driving car, carefully check for leaks and test for proper brake operation.

13. Never store hydraulic fluid in Power Bleeder. Always dispose of excess fluid properly. Do not clean your Power Bleeder with brake parts cleaners or other solvents not intended for use with plastic components. Lubrication of the Power Bleeder pump mechanism should not normally be necessary. Should lubrication be required, apply a small amount of brake fluid compatible grease to the Power Bleeder pump shaft. Never lubricate with petroleum-based oils.




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Old May 3rd, 2002, 07:08 AM   #14
Harry Wong
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Yes, bleed the clutch master cylinder too! *NM*

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Old May 4th, 2002, 10:59 PM   #15
Eric in Dallas
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Re: Yes, bleed the clutch master cylinder too!

5 PSI is plenty on the Motive bleeder. Like Dan said, using a turkey baster, remove as much of the fluid from the reservoir as you can. Then, using a funnel, fill reservoir to full with new fluid. Put the rest of the liter in the Motive cansiter. Attach to the reservoir. Pump to 5 PSI and set canister on its side with the top higher than the bottom so that the pick up tube inside is at the very bottom.

With separate lines these days going to the farthest away is not so important as it used to be but I start at pass rear for old times sake.
The drain hose Motive sends is too short so buy about 4 feet of the same size at your hardware store.
Attach the hose to the outer bleeder valve on pass rear.
Using 11mm wrench (line wrench is even better) just crack the valve open (counterclockwise) 1/8th turn should do it. If you go a 1/4 turn you will suck air in through the valve threads and see tiny air bubbles in the hose making you think you have air in your system--which you don't. So 1/8th should do it. You'll see old fluid flowing though just like with the Power Bleeder fill line, the waste line WILL NOT BE FULL OF FLUID THE WHOLE WAY TO THE COLLECTION JUG (I use empty milk jug). But you'll see fluid moving. Be a little patient. If going from gold to blue, you will see light blue followed by a darker blue. When darker blue runs clear, close valve. VERY IMPORTANT: when removing waste hose from valve nipple, pinch it tight near the valve pull quickly and cover with rag. Hold up so fluid will run into collection jug. Apply hose to inner valve and repeat process. REMEMBER: brake fluid is a wicked solvent. Wipe any off brake caliper paint or any other painted surface quickly (it taks a couple of minutes to dissolve paint so you have a little time!)

Then do driver rear, pass front then driver front always doing outer valve first. When you get done with all four calipers then you get to do the clutch bleeder valve! Tool pants has a good photo of its location. If you have 3 1/2 foot double jointed arms this will be a snap!
It is hard to reach but even a fat redneck like me can do it. Attach the waste hose as usual and crack the valve- in other words it bleeds the same as a brake caliper. A LOT of fluid will come out before the color changes so make sure you're not about to run out at the Motive canister - adjust canister so pick-up tube is at very very bottom.

When done with clutch bleeder, look at reservoir. More than likely it is over-full but the Motive is connected so it is OK but will have to be adjusted. As the Motive directions state, now orient the Motvie canister so that the pick-up tube is now getting air instead of fluid ( do NOT open the canister just move it) . Attach waste hose to outer driver front caliper bleeder valve and open. Watch fluid level in reservoir fall to the "max full" level as Motive canister pushes the level lower with air. At that point, close caliper bleeder valve.

NEVER RELEASE PRESSURE AT THE RESERVOIR. ALWAYS release pressure by carefully and slowly unscrewing pump mechanism on Motive canister. After releasing pressure at cansiter, unattach Motive Bleeder from reservoir, replace screen/cup (that 3 legged white floating thing in the reservoir is the out of fluid warning light switch) and cap.

Tips:
1) get a longer waste hose from hardware store
2) use empty milk jug as waste collector
3) use a "line" wrench in 11mm rather than standard 11mm - it will save valve nuts from getting rounded
4) remove what you can from reservoir before starting using turkey baster - then fill with new clean fluid
5) use a different color fluid than what is in the system - ATE makes gold and blue for this purpose
6) The Motive Power Bleeder is the greatest thing since canned beer.
7) You can do the clutch bleeder but it is a hard reach.
Brake fluid is a wicked solvent. Wipe it up very promptly.
9) One liter should be plenty- however- if you have not done this before you will bleed too much fluid and will need a second liter. (this is because you will be impatient, open the valve too much, see tiny air bubbles, and bleed that caliper forever trying to get the air out - air which is seeping in through the threads of the bleeder valve!) Either buy 2 or make sure you start when store is still open.
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Old May 5th, 2002, 08:30 AM   #16
Scott Fisher (Redwood Shores)
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Nice detailed intructions Eric...you da man! *NM*

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